AWP server rank reset system

[BMW M3 GTR]

Hello team.

I have doubts with the point reset system that you plan to implement in September. Many players that I have interacted with also expressed their disagreement with the current situation.  I find it hard to understand that the team barely interacted with the community to ask for feedback regarding the point system reset., together with barely any announcement of the change. 

I have reason that I disagree with the change:

• Many players play that server with the intent to gain as much points possible, as a competition (yes sounds very dumb). Removing that aspect pretty much nullifies the entire purposes of trying hard in that server, hence possibly removing a portion of the player base.
• Though it may be much more kinder to newer players who want to try the server, it's quite unfair for older players having to reset their stats to have an even playing field. I believe in meritocracy
• The server functions differently compared to other server (retakes, 1v1 etc.). Gameplay mostly centers around the point system itself.
• (speculation) I personally  do not bother as much for the rewards system such as  VIP , etc. for rankings at the end of each reset. This might just lead to more desperate measure like hacked clients just to get free VIPs. Just an opinion though.
• Lack of transparency of the change. I really do love your awp servers, but I feel pretty bummed there wasn't any polling/survey for your active player base to feedback you guys on.

Thank you for reading this and feel free to share your thoughts.

Regards

GTR

(ps i rlly love my stats don do dis)

Edited August 18, 2021 by BMW M3 GTR

[Samuukxs]

Hey mate, thanks for taking the time to make this post. Let me address some of the points you have brought up.

1. We have wanted to implement this change for a while now, and during that time, a large majority of the community have shared their excitement about a point reset system. We have also asked the community for a tonne of feedback during this time, and the majority supported this transition. We couldn't conduct any official votes on the public KZG discord server, but some private ones were conducted to get a grasp of what the community wanted (votes among staff, as well as a vote I conducted with 40+ SG players, where 95% of players wanted a reset of some kind).

2. Your stats won't be gone! The only thing that is getting reset is your points. Your KD, Kills, Deaths, HS% and more will remain.

3. 'Many players play that server with the intent to gain as many points possible, as a competition (yes sounds very dumb)', the point system with how it is currently is the opposite of what you have brought up. As the points have been the same for years now, it actually isn't as much of a competition because many people have spent years getting their points, making it impossible for people to come even close to them. I know you have mentioned that older players may be annoyed by this, but the point system was created to see who the best players are. If they are really the best, this will only prove that even more. There is also no 'winner' if it never ends, so people are actually competing for nothing. The points will reset every three months from this September, which will make it more of a competition to see who will come in the top 3; this will only make more players eager to play (we may even add text in chat that shows the top 3 players from the last reset).

4. Regarding people cheating to get points, you won't have to worry about this as we have a strong staff team and anti-cheat who can pick up on hackers very quickly before they cause any harm.

I am more than happy to answer more questions you may have below

 

Thanks, Samuukxs

[sunnyjunny]

Hi Sam, Long time player and lurker here. Just wanted to share my thoughts and feelings regarding this issue, as well as some feedback and rebuttals for your arguments. While I've become much more inactive recently, i felt that i have to make a post here. Nothing personal, but if my comments here sound snarky or rude , I do apologise.

1 ). First and foremost, I would like to preface my point that yes, it is true that I have heard of rumblings of a reset for  a long time now but the abruptness of this is surprising. Which brings me to your first point 1). 

5 hours ago, Samuukxs said:

(votes among staff, as well as a vote I conducted with 40+ SG players, where 95% of players wanted a reset of some kind)

KZG | SG has over thousands of active players, so firstly plainly sampling 40 would just be insufficient. Now I do doubt that 95% of the player-base will 'want a reset of some kind ' , I believe that a proper unbiased sampling of the full player population would yield a number closer to the 50-50 range. This 95% figure may just be full of new players, who simply would not care if their progress was wiped. A better and smarter way to do this, would be a community poll on google docs or some kind, left over a week for players to vote. However, my main point is that this 'change' was not well communicated to us at all.  

11 hours ago, BMW M3 GTR said:

together with barely any announcement of the change. 

Personally, while I absolutely disagree with the decision (which i hope to change in this post), majority of us would prefer a heads up or a more official announcement on the forums / discord . The latest posts on discord were about Juicd Energy & Bot accounts and the forums announcement section has been dead for years, so I'm sure that an announcement would be obviously more helpful & visible if posted there instead. I personally heard this from a friend who discord DMed me regarding this, which i thought was a joke.

2 ) 

5 hours ago, Samuukxs said:

Your stats won't be gone! The only thing that is getting reset is your points. Your KD, Kills, Deaths, HS% and more will remain.

This may sound wonderful, but what distinguishes a player's skill in the server is the amount of points one have. What baffles me here is the half-half reset system here that you guys have decided to implement. There would be nothing to distinguish between a new 5k points player and old 5k points player other than the KD and kills, to which one can only view for themselves. I would either support a full reset or a no reset at all.

 

 3) As for this, i completely disagree. The precise reason why top player's stay at the top is not because of their long time playing the server, but their skill. With the current ranking system, i would even argue that the system FAVOURS low ranking players, who take 25 a kill compared to 2 points a kill vice versa. If you would do the math, for top players to break even, thats 13 kills - 1 kill to break even on the net gain/loss. I would even go as far as to give you an example. Karasu , a long time friend of mine (currently with the username Hoshi) has one of the longest playtimes and most kills on the server with over 55 days straight of connection time and 55093 kills currently sits at pos 150. Point accumulation is not a product of time spent, but skill.

IM sorry karasu, no hard feelings.

5 hours ago, Samuukxs said:

As the points have been the same for years now, it actually isn't as much of a competition because many people have spent years getting their points, making it impossible for people to come even close to them

As for the 'player's unable to come close to them part, i would implore you to just look at the player rankings right now. There are plenty of smurf accounts created by others that shoot up the rankings, so theoretically everyone should be able to do it if they posses the skill to do so.  The current pos 1  Azula beat the rest of the server with only 2 days of connection time, so simply saying that it is impossible to players to come close is untrue.

5 hours ago, Samuukxs said:

There is also no 'winner' if it never ends, so people are actually competing for nothing.

This might sound rude , but with the future system it still seems like nothing.. Free VIP, credits are simply just worthless, not to a fault of the owners but the nature of the server. It would be suicide to wear cosmetics, trails, lazers, hats as it gives a HUGE disadvantage. Just imagine peeking tower with a traffic cone, lazer and a trail, you would simply get wallbanged to death. Sticking to vanilla seems like the smartest solution. As for the top 3 announcement part... personally i don't really feel thats a sufficient reward for 3 months worth of a slogfest of a grind to top 3. ( not that ill get there) While this may be a good idea for other 1v1 / retake servers , awp would be an exception to this. The current reward for players being good is to stay on top, a much more worth it reward in my opinion.

5 hours ago, Samuukxs said:

but the point system was created to see who the best players are. If they are really the best, this will only prove that even more.

And now who the best players are indeed are rightfully reinstated on the leaderboard. The new system implores the player to prove themselves over and over again, wouldn't you think that they will eventually just leave?

___________________

imo, the current ecosystem is doing decently, albeit with some changes much needed. Top players have their points trickle down when they die.  With your impending 3 month resent system, I would most likely seem that this system would cap players to 60-70% of the current points , as MANY players would just come back in waves with freshly reset accounts, making the climb more difficult. KZG has been a server where stats don't reset, and personally this becomes more important to me as recently i  have more commitments irl and wont be on as frequently as i was. It feels good knowing that when i log back in after long periods of inactivity, my progress has still been kept. And this the fact is that if i de-proved, my rank would reflect this easily. IF this decision stands, we would be moving towards the mode of servers like zeddy/revenantz with frequent resets, completely undistinguishable from other double jump servers. In my history of playing, there has been plenty of other awp servers that shutdown due to dwindling playerbases (see froid, immense). While KZG has been on the fall since 2017 (  don't have the statistics for this one) and that we have been losing more and more OGs as time goes by, we seem to have held on to a fraction of regulars that keep the server running, many of whom have even became admins. It would seem that this decision would ultimately kill the playerbase, as personally i would be less inclined to visit the server.

I strongly implore you to reconsider your decision. 

Thanks for reading this huge block of text.  Just had to get it out during my lunchtime. Cheers for reading this sam.

 

 

[Samuukxs]

I appreciate the time you took to write this. What I am getting at is that the points staying the same helps distinguish the long-time players from the new players and the good players from the bad. It also allows the good players to take breaks without the fear of them losing all their points. I also appreciate that you have stated that the AWP server is different from retakes, executes, and 1v1, which I understand because, admittedly, the vote I conducted was more towards that group of players.

I am more than happy to come to a solution that will be the best for the SG AWP Server, and I believe that we need a reset every so often to prevent the server and player base from stagnate. However, I do believe, due to the points you have arisen, that maybe the reset for the SG AWP server can be different in terms of how often it occurs.

So my question is: Would you and the player base prefer a reset that occurs every six months or year instead?

Thanks, Samuukxs

[BMW M3 GTR]

6 hours ago, Samuukxs said:

 

1. We have wanted to implement this change for a while now, and during that time, a large majority of the community have shared their excitement about a point reset system. We have also asked the community for a tonne of feedback during this time, and the majority supported this transition. We couldn't conduct any official votes on the public KZG discord server, but some private ones were conducted to get a grasp of what the community wanted (votes among staff, as well as a vote I conducted with 40+ SG players, where 95% of players wanted a reset of some kind).

I think change is great sometimes, but really not in this instance. I do not think that there's anything broken with the points system, so there is no point fixing something that is broken. I think there are many great ideas for changes such as addition of new cosmetics, maps, maybe even mm ranks to distinguish players (like Zeddy). I believe that this reset changes the game fundamentally. 

6 hours ago, Samuukxs said:

 

3. 'Many players play that server with the intent to gain as many points possible, as a competition (yes sounds very dumb)', the point system with how it is currently is the opposite of what you have brought up. As the points have been the same for years now, it actually isn't as much of a competition because many people have spent years getting their points, making it impossible for people to come even close to them. I know you have mentioned that older players may be annoyed by this, but the point system was created to see who the best players are. If they are really the best, this will only prove that even more. There is also no 'winner' if it never ends, so people are actually competing for nothing. The points will reset every three months from this September, which will make it more of a competition to see who will come in the top 3; this will only make more players eager to play (we may even add text in chat that shows the top 3 players from the last reset).

Again, this is just wiping out the fundamental gameplay of the server which is to gain points using whatever skillset possible in order to beat the best of the rest. Think of it as race car's hill-climb record, swimming lap times or highest mountain climb record; if you erase away those records, there is simply no meaning to try over and over again if it is gonna get reset every time. Yes statistics can still remain, but what's the fun if there is no self-satisfaction for achieving and staying at a certain placement. VIP's are great but I also hardly find anyone mentioning it in my time at the server. (Please do implement seasonal rankings plugins to see previous top10's in the event the team still wished to go ahead)

Thanks again for reading

disc: gtr#7139

Edited August 19, 2021 by BMW M3 GTR

[Samuukxs]

Hey, I have made a poll. Please spread this around so we can get what is best for the SG AWP server. 

 

[hersha]

I would recommend either no reset or the longest time to reset, even though 3 months is a long time but as for me, I almost played a year and had a highest peek score around pos40, and currently I am still tryharding to get as high as possible.

From the day I played until now , I still admire those OGs played for years to maintain that high points even though there are frequently tons of smurfers (with a random name and no profile pics) came to unbalance the system as making it hard to climb without the "skills" as some of the smurfers tend to have a high rank that wanted to derank others.

I personally don't think the stats is important so it doesn't bother me if it stays or not, but the points is everyone's goal, I would just leave the server if many low rankers is playing.

I think the point system is good enough, have the longest time to reset or no reset , I just don't like that the fact anyone can just create an account under 5 minutes to deduct your points and waste the whole day grinding for it, as the point system is different to other server like Mr.Sunny said, 13 to 1  is not a small number even a small mistake will lead to death, making it 26 kills for 2 death to maintain the score, not even gaining it, that's 13kd , like me my wifi is not as stable as others causing me to lag like 70% of the time, so I had to wait for it to stable and play, but sometimes still having it to face the low rankers, it is very hard for me to gain,  but I could still maintain the points which I am already proud of myself.

If a wipe in every 3 months occur, I think its hard as some players that came back to play for fun is like a new fresh account no different to smurfers, because through the time I played I had seen a few players that create an account to deduct -25 of some high rank players like just came for him only then after his points reached a certain amount , the points deduction reduce to like -10 he would just create a new account to continue making the high ranker suffer, even though the high ranker can leave during the session but it is causing some players to rage or anything.

Sorry for the off topic, just a mind of mine. :c

Yeah, I think a poll would just be great, to gather all the player's decision, so everyone will just have to follow the outcome.

Edit: Ohh there is already a poll, good luck to everyone!! Respect the outcomes even if it isn't your choice ^^

Edited August 19, 2021 by hersha

[Nosey]

I might be slightly retarded for not seeing this post since its  been out for a while but I believe the points reset is a good idea and also something I and many other long time players have been pushing for. it allows those of us that have been playing for a long time to have a fresh start and start anew. it will also allow for more competition among the higher point players as it will no longer become about who has been player the server the longest and has just grinded out points but allows for those newer people that are skilled to be among those higher ranks. this type of point or rank system has also been used in various games and has played out well for those games. as for the reward system you could possibly implement a weapon skin or similar that is only available to those in the top percentile. the reset will also address the smurfs as players will not lose as many points as there will not be as large a point gap between players. all in all big ups the point reset.

[Anastasia]

Kinda late to the party here but i personally think that a point reset would do the server some good ( at least for sg) , The top players in sg are generally inactive and they barely come online which makes points farming hard for new players. i joined killzone rather late (around oct 2020) by then all the top players of the servers have already been established. I started grinding for points , managed to reach pos 19 on the server rather quickly but moving beyond that was near to impossible (not because i m bad i swear, was a constant top 10 and position 1 for some time in sky net gaming , an old awp server with the exact same game mechanics which shut down in 2019)  because all the top players were inactive . i can literally still be losing points with a 10kdr game , yes thats how fucked up it is and still is . As for the Au server , which i also play a decent amount of time on, i dont think that the point system there is as fucked up as sg and moving up positions is possible because the top players in there are rather active.but the disparity in points is rather large so it would take a lot of time and effort for an individual to climb up to the top few positions. Lastly i think that a 3 month reset is too short of a duration, perhaps a 6 month reset?

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Anastasia

[Diamond]

14 minutes ago, Anastasia said:

Kinda late to the party here but i personally think that a point reset would do the server some good ( at least for sg) , The top players in sg are generally inactive and they barely come online which makes points farming hard for new players. i joined killzone rather late (around oct 2020) by then all the top players of the servers have already been established. I started grinding for points , managed to reach pos 19 on the server rather quickly but moving beyond that was near to impossible (not because i m bad i swear, was a constant top 10 and position 1 for some time in sky net gaming , an old awp server with the exact same game mechanics which shut down in 2019)  because all the top players were inactive . i can literally still be losing points with a 10kdr game , yes thats how fucked up it is and still is . As for the Au server , which i also play a decent amount of time on, i dont think that the point system there is as fucked up as sg and moving up positions is possible because the top players in there are rather active.but the disparity in points is rather large so it would take a lot of time and effort for an individual to climb up to the top few positions. Lastly i think that a 3 month reset is too short of a duration, perhaps a 6 month reset?

 

You can vote here for the length:

 

[Samuukxs]

17 minutes ago, Anastasia said:

Kinda late to the party here but i personally think that a point reset would do the server some good ( at least for sg) , The top players in sg are generally inactive and they barely come online which makes points farming hard for new players. i joined killzone rather late (around oct 2020) by then all the top players of the servers have already been established. I started grinding for points , managed to reach pos 19 on the server rather quickly but moving beyond that was near to impossible (not because i m bad i swear, was a constant top 10 and position 1 for some time in sky net gaming , an old awp server with the exact same game mechanics which shut down in 2019)  because all the top players were inactive . i can literally still be losing points with a 10kdr game , yes thats how fucked up it is and still is . As for the Au server , which i also play a decent amount of time on, i dont think that the point system there is as fucked up as sg and moving up positions is possible because the top players in there are rather active.but the disparity in points is rather large so it would take a lot of time and effort for an individual to climb up to the top few positions. Lastly i think that a 3 month reset is too short of a duration, perhaps a 6 month reset?

 

Thanks for your insight

[RetroViper]

22 minutes ago, Diamond said:

You can vote here for the length:

When will the vote be ending @Diamond

[Sorrow [Not The Admin]]

5 hours ago, Anastasia said:

(not because i m bad i swear, with a 10kdr game

 

cap