Changing Racial Slur Rule.

[Dandy]

I totally understand that racial slurs are completely disrespectful and can be quite offensive people. However majority of the reason for people saying the racial slurs is due to the fact that these words are "banned". 

People say these words to gain attention and attempt to go under the radar while an admin is on. Honestly... if people are to get offended then letting an admin know would be their initial thought. From there and admin can judge a mute/ban.

Would like the rule changed if possible as its becoming a common thing to gain attention from.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Dandy

[Macgregor]

No its fine. 

[Supreme ❤]

-1 

[panthA]

Let's also allow people to ghost, if they don't make it obvious and people don't complain then it doesn't matter. Maybe we should also let people abuse others cause it's just CS:GO right? These things happen in match making. So why enforce it?

 

Rules are there to be enforced so that EVERYONE can have a good experience. This includes people who DON'T speak up and say they were offended. If people are saying derogatory slurs to again attention, as per the rules, they will be muted/gagged (at least on the AIM servers) . You may not find these words offensive and wouldn't care if they were changed for no other reason than, so admins don't have to mute people, but your missing the silent majority that do find it offensive. 

 

Also, if the same person is repeatedly breaking rules to gain attention, there are punishments that will escalate and eventually remove their attention seeking behavior. 

[tjweary]

2 hours ago, Dandy said:

majority of the reason for people saying the racial slurs is due to the fact that these words are "banned". 

 

he isn't wrong though, it's like racism in reality, since race laws have been created racism hasn't died down, infact it has gotten worse progressively over the years. aside from the fact that it's a divisionary tactic, racism is something that can be stopped without laws and regulations.  problem is it means patience and not seeing the fruit of your labor (we'll be dead by time racism is finally crushed through generations of teachings.)

I will admit  racism is a difficult thing to deal with, and my theory isnt full proof as it requires parents to actually parent so each generation learns less racism than the last while also teaching more moral standings. (higher moral standpoint  or a higher level of "humanity" in a sense means they wont be trying to actually hurt people. lack of humanity also being a root cause to the majority of the worlds problems, thus a far better target to deal with rather than a symptom of lack of humanity, ie racism)


im not a fan of the race law, or any law that restricts a persons rights. (right to freedom of speech, even if it is "offensive")

honestly as far as i see it, we shouldnt ban people for just blurting out the word nigger, we should be focusing on more targeted racist attacks against specific people.

example... if it becomes public knowledge that a certain membere is of asian decent and a group of people target him for it, that is blatant racism.
someone dying and yelling "fucking nigger" isnt racist in my view.




EDIT: conclusion. our rule probably wont go away... and the race laws themselves wont go away before kzg dies. in fact we'll probably be dead when it finally does vanish. why? it's a great tool at the moment, it has been pitting people against each other for a very long time and the race laws helped draw the line in the sand between left wing and right wing people (even though originally the target was the government. now it is each other.)

[panthA]

5 minutes ago, tjweary said:

he isn't wrong though, it's like racism in reality, since race laws have been created racism hasn't died down, infact it has gotten worse progressively over the years. aside from the fact that it's a divisionary tactic, racism is something that can be stopped without laws and regulations.  problem is it means patience and not seeing the fruit of your labor (we'll be dead by time racism is finally crushed through generations of teachings.)

I will admit  racism is a difficult thing to deal with, and my theory isnt full proof as it requires parents to actually parent so each generation learns less racism than the last while also teaching more moral standings. (higher moral standpoint  or a higher level of "humanity" in a sense means they wont be trying to actually hurt people. lack of humanity also being a root cause to the majority of the worlds problems, thus a far better target to deal with rather than a symptom of lack of humanity, ie racism)


im not a fan of the race law, or any law that restricts a persons rights. (right to freedom of speech, even if it is "offensive")

honestly as far as i see it, we shouldnt ban people for just blurting out the word nigger, we should be focusing on more targeted racist attacks against specific people.

example... if it becomes public knowledge that a certain membere is of asian decent and a group of people target him for it, that is blatant racism.
someone dying and yelling "fucking nigger" isnt racist in my view.

Sorry but "Race laws" or the Race Relations Act or known in Australia as Racial Discrimination Act had a profound positive effect since it was introduced. If you look at simple things like the "Stolen Generation" where children were taken from their families because they were "half cast". Only 5 years before the act was introduced. Even things like not allowing black's to vote based on their skin colour, the aboriginal land rights, deporting European migrants, the deportation of Pacific islanders, the White Australia Policy and the Northern Territories decision to exclude all voters unless they had served in the army. 

The Racial Discrimination Act does not impede in any way peoples right to their speech. Nor do our rules. We stop people from using vulgar language, we do not stop people from conveying their ideas. They still have the right to express themselves.

[tjweary]

2 minutes ago, panthA said:

Sorry but "Race laws" or the Race Relations Act or known in Australia as Racial Discrimination Act had a profound positive effect since it was introduced. If you look at simple things like the "Stolen Generation" where children were taken from their families because they were "half cast". Only 5 years before the act was introduced. Even things like not allowing black's to vote based on their skin colour, the aboriginal land rights, deporting European migrants, the deportation of Pacific islanders, the White Australia Policy and the Northern Territories decision to exclude all voters unless they had served in the army. 

The Racial Discrimination Act does not impede in any way peoples right to their speech. Nor do our rules. We stop people from using vulgar language, we do not stop people from conveying their ideas. They still have the right to express themselves.

i was going to mention how real racism has died down and "placebo" racism has risen. placebo being the wrong word for it.

but again the whole "stolen generation" could have been avoided entirely if humans had retained their humanity.

racism is a symptom to a much greater problem that im trying to find an ethical friendly way to fix.
easiest way, killing off the majority of humanity ( no we wont make the cut) but ethics.
second would be mass brainwashing into teaching people common values and to refrain from violent/hateful acts. again, ethics.
hell the path they have chosen is still ethically wrong (in my eyes) since it's restricting peoples rights and dividing our species.


"we stop people from using vulgar language" that is a restriction on freedom of speech, they may choose the "wrong" words but that doesn't mean we should limit their voice and right to say what we want.


again, it's something that can be fixed once we find a solution to the lack of humanity.

[Honmer]

27 minutes ago, tjweary said:

he isn't wrong though, it's like racism in reality, since race laws have been created racism hasn't died down, infact it has gotten worse progressively over the years. aside from the fact that it's a divisionary tactic, racism is something that can be stopped without laws and regulations.  problem is it means patience and not seeing the fruit of your labor (we'll be dead by time racism is finally crushed through generations of teachings.)

I will admit  racism is a difficult thing to deal with, and my theory isnt full proof as it requires parents to actually parent so each generation learns less racism than the last while also teaching more moral standings. (higher moral standpoint  or a higher level of "humanity" in a sense means they wont be trying to actually hurt people. lack of humanity also being a root cause to the majority of the worlds problems, thus a far better target to deal with rather than a symptom of lack of humanity, ie racism)


im not a fan of the race law, or any law that restricts a persons rights. (right to freedom of speech, even if it is "offensive")

honestly as far as i see it, we shouldnt ban people for just blurting out the word nigger, we should be focusing on more targeted racist attacks against specific people.

example... if it becomes public knowledge that a certain membere is of asian decent and a group of people target him for it, that is blatant racism.
someone dying and yelling "fucking nigger" isnt racist in my view.




EDIT: conclusion. our rule probably wont go away... and the race laws themselves wont go away before kzg dies. in fact we'll probably be dead when it finally does vanish. why? it's a great tool at the moment, it has been pitting people against each other for a very long time and the race laws helped draw the line in the sand between left wing and right wing people (even though originally the target was the government. now it is each other.)

Exactly right. We can't "force" someone to not be racist. It's free speech. Even if there is rules people are going to be racist. But it depends if someone is Insulting a member directly and purposely trying to make fun of their race, or Doing it as a meme or joke between friends.

[tjweary]

@Honmer yeah, back on topic (away from this lack of humanity issue i desperately want a solution for)

we should atleast define the rules... i mean we are supposed to recognize the difference between banter and bullying, in turn creating some grey areas where it's difficult to decide if one deserves a mute/ban or silence.
so it should be the same for "racial slurs" and shit, without the restriction people might actually use it less... obviously keeping the whole no hate crimes or targeting. just develop that grey area around racial slurs for when someone is just mad, banter or having a joke.

obviously still dropping the hammer when people are actually doing racist shit like targetting a specific race and being a blatant, hate mongering cunt.

[panthA]

12 minutes ago, tjweary said:

i was going to mention how real racism has died down and "placebo" racism has risen. placebo being the wrong word for it.

but again the whole "stolen generation" could have been avoided entirely if humans had retained their humanity.

racism is a symptom to a much greater problem that im trying to find an ethical friendly way to fix.
easiest way, killing off the majority of humanity ( no we wont make the cut) but ethics.
second would be mass brainwashing into teaching people common values and to refrain from violent/hateful acts. again, ethics.
hell the path they have chosen is still ethically wrong (in my eyes) since it's restricting peoples rights and dividing our species.


"we stop people from using vulgar language" that is a restriction on freedom of speech, they may choose the "wrong" words but that doesn't mean we should limit their voice and right to say what we want.


again, it's something that can be fixed once we find a solution to the lack of humanity.

If we look at evidence, before Race relations we had rampant racism, even genocide against peoples skin colour or religion. After, we still have personal racism but industrial racism has nearly been wiped out. Saying that certain instances of racism could be avoided and casting it aside as if it were an anomaly doesn't help. 

 

Quote

Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice.

We don't protect words with freedom of speech as everyone likes to think. We protect idea's and the medium in which they want to spread it. It's not an infringement of someones freedom to restrict their word choice, it is a restriction to limit their idea's and where they convey them.

Edited January 5, 2018 by panthA

[tjweary]

all im trying to say pantha, is racism in itself is a symptom of a greater problem that could be avoided.

EDIT: problem being finding the solution to the greater problem without hitting ethical boundaries.

[panthA]

Regardless of whether or not racist words are racist, if we allow certain aspects of a rule to be broken (The "grey" area) this will just lead to confusion on whether or not it's a rule. If an admin punishes someone for one thing but is told by another that it's acceptable will cause more problems than the occasional 12 year old screaming nigger at the end of a map.

 

-1

[Ec1ipse]

-1

[RetroViper]

People need to know that racism isnt just joke, many people are affected by this.

-1

[Nyalon]

REFUSED
nuff said