[Suggestion] Add/Change rules to prevent continuous saving

[MYST]

Something needs to be done, these specific individuals make 90% of the servers playerbase angry and cause them to lash out at them in chat or at admins (Yes I am one of them), when they constantly save their weapons continuously and rarely attempt to retrieve/defuse the bomb, delaying the round that could just be ended in a matter of seconds, extending it out for 20-30 seconds longer etc. I can understand that saving is apart of competitive gameplay, but there has to be a line drawn between saving and delaying. I just had a heated discussion with pkN (who likes to jump down your throat when you to try explain your reasoning for complaining about these specific people  ) he mentioned in our "argument" that economy is apart of the game, which is correct, but I stated that if the player is constantly saving on T side, they're not earning any money if the bomb is not planted, besides getting any kills they are able to get. This playstyle is not a competitive benefit IMO, we're not pro's on this server, but I don't see professional teams opting to save every round when 1 or 2 players die because they're too scared to lose their weapons. It frustrates players like me, who try to have fun and not play like these people, to then have to sit on spectator mode for the next 20-30 seconds for multiple rounds in a row watching a person make 0 attempt to win the round (within reason). Also in our "argument" I mentioned how on the previous map, an admin toggled a beacon on the remaining players who were clearly not attempting to win the round, which cause this person to leave."Why should a single player be punished because they're playing the game how they want to", I understand, but why should 10+ people on the same team as this person be punished to watch them do nothing for the next 20-30 seconds. If doing this prevents people from saving continuously, because people will know where they are, so be it, do you want people to play on your server or to leave in frustration because of specific players ruining the fun for everyone else.

So I am suggesting a new rule to be added, where you are encouraged to attempt to win the round for your team, within reason of course, you're not expected to try and win a 1v8 (that's only for idiots like me), but atleast attempt to go and look for kills. However this would be worded its just a suggestion, whether anything is done about it or not, its up to who writes the rules.

I just wanna apologize to pkN, I can understand its stressful for you because you're an admin and you (and other admins) receive the blunt end of the abuse from people complaining, and people like me just get to the point where we have enough of the bullshit, but like I said before you banned me mid sentence, you seem like you're old enough to understand, but when you act like a kid and don't let other people talk just because you have "admin" and can deal with people however you want is pretty pathetic, we're men, we like to argue for what we think is right and wrong, but you just acted like a little bitch. Sorry if I crossed a "line" with these comments but someone needs to grow a pair and say it how it is. I love KZG servers, I love playing casual competitive, but the more this happens, and nothing is done about it, the more of a turn off it is for me and many others to continue playing on KZG server/s.

MYST

 

[Winged_Raven]

The issue I see is how do you define a rule/rules which can implement your wishes while not negatively impacting other players. If it is a 1 v 5+ can the person save? Do they have to attempt to clutch a 2 v 6 if the opponents are on a forcebuy? Can you only save two rounds in a row?

Each round is unique and I believe it would be an incredibly difficult and subjective rule to enforce. If you have any specific ideas for rules, this would be a good thread to suggest them and get feedback from players and admins.

[MYST]

Yeah that's the hard part, but when people are saving for 7 rounds in a row with clear motive not to look for kills etc, its pretty obvious that something should be done, all in all, its  just a suggestion/rant because I haven't seen anyone else suggest anything yet, they've just complained about the specific person/s. It would be hard to enforce the rule, if it were to be added, because an admin might not be on for multiple maps to enforce it.

Maybe something along the lines of, "You are encouraged to attempt to play the round out, and should only save as a last resort if a round win is not securable" like you and I stated, myself and others wouldn't expect 1 person to go up against 10 for example after the enemy team has rushed a site, thus being entitled to save. Can go both ways, but hey, I'm trying.

Edited March 2, 2018 by MYST

[Winged_Raven]

24 minutes ago, MYST said:

"You are encouraged to attempt to play the round out, and should only save as a last resort if a round win is not securable" 

I really like the sound of that sentence. It could have a positive impact, especially for CT players. On the flipside, defining a 'round win is not securable' for the T side is much harder. It could be changed to: "You are encouraged to attempt to play the round out, and should only save as a last resort if a round win is not securable or impact cannot be made" 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Winged_Raven

[MYST]

3 minutes ago, Winged_Raven said:

I really like the sound of that sentence. It could have a positive impact, especially for CT players. On the flipside, defining a 'round win is not securable' for the T side is much harder. It could be changed to: "You are encouraged to attempt to play the round out, and should only save as a last resort if a round win is not securable or impact cannot be made" 

I like what you added, we're getting somewhere

[-[pkN24!7]-]

Refer to this thread.

In there we discuss this exact same thing and really i just cant be bothered writing it all again.

• I banned you because i told you to stop but you kept going even after i kicked you twice, muted you and warned you if you carried on i would ban you for 12 hours. You kept going. The reason i didn't want to hear your argument is because its the same from every single person about the same thing also one starts and next thing u have 12 people whinging to you at the same time.
•  as i explained to you that i cant punish someone for playing a certain style ( Once again refer to the other thread). just the same as i can not punish people for being shit at the game. He comes to our server to hone his skills like alot of other people and the thing is when you have a ranking system people will do whatever it takes to get to the top.
• I generally only beacon those who are extremely bad or that i know well enough that they will get a laugh out of it and the one that i did didn't leave because of it but he left because i kicked him three rounds later for being afk.
• Your theory may work in your head but how do you expect it to play out in the servers, who gets to decide whats worth going for and whats not? who gets to decide if hes delaying or if he doesn't believe he has the skill to take a bomb site 1v3 there is no way to police this properly as it would all be up to the admins judgement but there are too many factors you would have to counter in.
• You say saving on T is not economy but as i tried to explain, not having to buy all of your equipment again is already saving around 5K (AK, Armour, Nades, Flash, Smoke) it all adds up, and from what i could tell he was the only one with an AK most rounds.
• Hunter is rarely a T sided player, the only reason he was there was because he was auto switched which i was suprised he even stuck around and played ( he never plays T)
• In the rules it states

1. Abuse towards other players will not be tolerated and will be punished with the utmost severity. We understand that the environment on all servers can become heated at times, but the community of Killzone Gaming does not condone any form of toxicity/hate speech/abuse/racism/discrimination.

• Also after i private messaged him he was following the team to the sites and doing everything youre saying hes not, you started going off at him when he was on B site trying to kill three guys doing the thing that you say he never does and just because he wasnt successful you started carrying on (maybe this is why he doesnt push because he folds under pressure) So please tell me how you abusing someone for doing all the things you're saying he never does was the right way to go about it. Abuse is also not tolerated on our servers but for some reason alot of admins choose to look the other way when it comes to Hunter. So when youre saying im acting like a child when im telling you to stop maybe you should take a look in the mirror and realize not everyone wants to hear you crying about another player and voice chat is not somewhere for that, especially when you speak to me in a aggressive manner just because i wont do what you say. 

• 10 hours ago, MYST said:

  but when you act like a kid and don't let other people talk just because you have "admin" and can deal with people however you want is pretty pathetic, we're men, we like to argue for what we think is right and wrong, but you just acted like a little bitch. Sorry if I crossed a "line" with these comments but someone needs to grow a pair and say it how it is.

  I told you how it was and you decided that because it wasn't the way you wanted that you would continue on crying to me, you say i dint let you speak but you spoke enough over mic before you pissed me off enough to actually kick you, carrying on like a douchebag over mic and arguing with the admin will not get you anywhere and if you read the rules where it says the part that admins have last say then you would understand why i was getting sick of your shit. Im there trying to have fun just like everyone else so i dont need you crying in my ear about someone else's game style and if you dont want to listen to what i say and also abuse a 15 year old kid for how he plays the game then you have to be prepared for the same consequences as everyone else. 

I suggest you read the other post before you decide to reply because im sick of talking about the same shit.

[MYST]

2 hours ago, -[pkN24!7]- said:

Refer to this thread.

In there we discuss this exact same thing and really i just cant be bothered writing it all again.

• I banned you because i told you to stop but you kept going even after i kicked you twice, muted you and warned you if you carried on i would ban you for 12 hours. You kept going. The reason i didn't want to hear your argument is because its the same from every single person about the same thing also one starts and next thing u have 12 people whinging to you at the same time.
•  as i explained to you that i cant punish someone for playing a certain style ( Once again refer to the other thread). just the same as i can not punish people for being shit at the game. He comes to our server to hone his skills like alot of other people and the thing is when you have a ranking system people will do whatever it takes to get to the top.
• I generally only beacon those who are extremely bad or that i know well enough that they will get a laugh out of it and the one that i did didn't leave because of it but he left because i kicked him three rounds later for being afk.
• Your theory may work in your head but how do you expect it to play out in the servers, who gets to decide whats worth going for and whats not? who gets to decide if hes delaying or if he doesn't believe he has the skill to take a bomb site 1v3 there is no way to police this properly as it would all be up to the admins judgement but there are too many factors you would have to counter in.
• You say saving on T is not economy but as i tried to explain, not having to buy all of your equipment again is already saving around 5K (AK, Armour, Nades, Flash, Smoke) it all adds up, and from what i could tell he was the only one with an AK most rounds.
• Hunter is rarely a T sided player, the only reason he was there was because he was auto switched which i was suprised he even stuck around and played ( he never plays T)
• In the rules it states

1. Abuse towards other players will not be tolerated and will be punished with the utmost severity. We understand that the environment on all servers can become heated at times, but the community of Killzone Gaming does not condone any form of toxicity/hate speech/abuse/racism/discrimination.

• Also after i private messaged him he was following the team to the sites and doing everything youre saying hes not, you started going off at him when he was on B site trying to kill three guys doing the thing that you say he never does and just because he wasnt successful you started carrying on (maybe this is why he doesnt push because he folds under pressure) So please tell me how you abusing someone for doing all the things you're saying he never does was the right way to go about it. Abuse is also not tolerated on our servers but for some reason alot of admins choose to look the other way when it comes to Hunter. So when youre saying im acting like a child when im telling you to stop maybe you should take a look in the mirror and realize not everyone wants to hear you crying about another player and voice chat is not somewhere for that, especially when you speak to me in a aggressive manner just because i wont do what you say. 

• I told you how it was and you decided that because it wasn't the way you wanted that you would continue on crying to me, you say i dint let you speak but you spoke enough over mic before you pissed me off enough to actually kick you, carrying on like a douchebag over mic and arguing with the admin will not get you anywhere and if you read the rules where it says the part that admins have last say then you would understand why i was getting sick of your shit. Im there trying to have fun just like everyone else so i dont need you crying in my ear about someone else's game style and if you dont want to listen to what i say and also abuse a 15 year old kid for how he plays the game then you have to be prepared for the same consequences as everyone else. 

I suggest you read the other post before you decide to reply because im sick of talking about the same shit.

Yeah I read that rant, but I wanted to have my say because it didnt answer what I wanted. You made it seem like I was complaining the whole time I was on the server, which is not true, it was for the last 3 rounds of the map when we had the argument and I got kicked twice because you didnt like what I had to say. I didnt keep going, I said thanks for kicking me, because you would let me speak and hear me out, because you didnt want to hear it, whats different from anyone else complaining in text chat about this specific person or in voice chat. The funny thing is, after you messaged him and essentially "told him what to do" he did it for one round, I didnt start carrying on because he went into the site, I was carrying on about the previous 7-8 round where he sat in T aps the whole game and saved. I might have been speaking in an "aggressive" manner, as for anyone would if someone like you is getting louder and louder to speak over you, you have your reason to, but that's anyone when they're having a passionate argument. It was more the fact you wouldnt let me finishing having my say, and would interrupt me constantly, that would piss anyone off, like I pissed you off. This is obviously a sensitive issue so no point going on about it anymore because nothing will be done.

[-[pkN24!7]-]

You fail to understand why I got louder and why I kicked you even though I have made it quite obvious in my final statement. 

I told you to stop repetitively and you decided to keep going, I kicked you as a warning twice and told you what would happen if you wanted to carry on. You say I wouldn’t let you have you’re say but you made your point clear enough to me “punish him for saving” as I told you he’s doing nothing wrong so I can’t just slay him because I can’t wait for 20 seconds for the round to finish.

Also there is a way to keep it out of chat called Admin chat which I’m pretty sure you would know how to use.

[ioutrankyou]

I think it's a clear issue that needs to be addressed. If multiple players everygame are getting angry and annoyed at one player it's usually for the right reason. I'm not condoning abuse, i'm merely pointing out that continuing to ignore this issue without addressing the concerns these player have isn't good for the server.

There is no direct rule regarding attempting the objective. But the Gamemode is bomb explosion/defusal if you don't atleast try to make a concerted effort to work with your teammates to win what's the point in playing.

It maybe a subjective rule that needs to be added, but all our rules and even law can be subjective. That's why we have common sense. We're not dumb, everyone has eyes and ears. So if you can get demo's of players that exhibit that kind of continual behavior i'd be more than welcome to review them.

 

 

 

[MYST]

1 hour ago, ioutrankyou said:

I think it's a clear issue that needs to be addressed. If multiple players everygame are getting angry and annoyed at one player it's usually for the right reason. I'm not condoning abuse, i'm merely pointing out that continuing to ignore this issue without addressing the concerns these player have isn't good for the server.

There is no direct rule regarding attempting the objective. But the Gamemode is bomb explosion/defusal if you don't atleast try to make a concerted effort to work with your teammates to win what's the point in playing.

It maybe a subjective rule that needs to be added, but all our rules and even law can be subjective. That's why we have common sense. We're not dumb, everyone has eyes and ears. So if you can get demo's of players that exhibit that kind of continual behavior i'd be more than welcome to review them.

 

 

 

Holy shit, an admin that can see where I am coming from, not like I made it blindingly obvious, nor did I think it was that hard to comprehend. Its common sense, which some people must not have. I've honestly had enough to be honest,  just like pkN, yourself and other admins have probably had enough aswell, if it was that hard to state that maybe something needs to be done/looked at, then nothing should be change and just let it go on, because its been going on for too long

[-[pkN24!7]-]

11 hours ago, MYST said:

Holy shit, an admin that can see where I am coming from

If you read the other forum post you would see that i know exactly where you're coming from as i have also stated i had punished him in the past and absolutely hate waiting around for him too, but there is nothing i can do about it so now i just do my job and dont complain.

It was discussed in the meeting last night and the outcome was that unfortunately because he is not breaking any rules and just playing his own game style that there is nothing we can do about it. He has started playing the game a bit more in the recent few days so we hope that he continues this trend and will monitor his game play closely. Any hostility towards him will now be treated as abuse or bullying and will not be tolerated.

I know you dont like this decision but this has come down from boss man Skyprah himself and also the Aim Staff in a group meeting last night. He has suggested adding in a feature that will stop someone from gaining points or losing all their money if they save for more than 3 rounds in a row.

[ruthles_kila]

I'm thinking a points reset would help this matter 

 

[Winged_Raven]

3 hours ago, ruthles_kila! said:

I'm thinking a points reset would help this matter 

 

A one-off points reset will not provide any change, in fact it could possibly make it worse as people see the top ranks as much more obtainable due to the low points differential. The system needs an overhaul (such as that mentioned by pkN above) if it will have any impact on the aforementioned issue. 

[-[pkN24!7]-]

The reset that ruth was talking about would be based on something like every 3-6 months. Most will find that while hiding can get you top10 it cant get you to number 1